What was updated: LG Grinders link was removed (see the comment section for details)
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I will be updating this section over the time. If you are missing something or have an interesting source for some tools or materials please let me know.
The knifemaking scene in Europe does not seem to support large knifemaking supply stores. In particulars tools like belt grinders or heat treatment ovens are not easy to find and nearly always a special order that will take 3-6 month to finish.
While I am not going to post a long list of all possible online shops that sell steel, handle materials and other knifemaking bits and pieces as these are easy to find, I will share a few links that may not be quite as easy to find.
Belt grinders available in Europe
When I first realized that sooner or later I will be getting a 'full size' belt grinder and started to look what is available I did not find much. It took me surprising amount of time to actually find a few interesting candidates. I am listing these, though please do not consider this to be an all-inclusive list. If you know another belt grinder makers in Europe do let me know and I will be glad to add them.
Please note I do not have experience with any of these so I can not give any recommendations or technical advice.
In no particular order:
- Wolf Borger - Wolfmaster (DE)
- Uwe Dosert - Model 2-SF (DE)
- Messerwerkstadt Steigerwald (DE)
- Dowland Engineering Services (UK) - they have a 'full blown' 2x72 and also a simpler and cheaper 2x42" model
- Titangrinder (IT) - they have a few demonstration videos on YouTube
- HAIM grinders (CZ - the webpage does not have an EN version unfortunately) These are very highly regarded among users.
- Claryx Belt Grinder (BG), they also have some videos on YouTube.
- volf48 Grinders (BG) - run by Konstantin Stefanov
- Gosset Belt Grinder G20 Pro (sold via Casstrom in SE, made in PL)
- Celi Grinders (HR). They seem to offer several models and there are also some YouTube videos
- MTM belt grinding machines - the webpage is in Hungarian lanugage only, but they also have a FB profile and can communicate in German and English
- Batko grinding machines - grinders made in Netherlands by Jac Nijskens. This is his hobby. He started making grinders when he himself became a hobby knifemaker and could not find a grinder he could afford at the time. The webpage is only in Dutch at the moment, but English implementation should be implemented soon.
- Kamil Wisniewski (Poland) - he is a guy who makes grinders as hobby. You can check out his grinders on BritishBlades.com here (the forum is gone unfortunately)
UPDATE 01/2018: I have ordered a grinder from Kamil back in 2016 and got the final parts delivered only in 12/2017. The grinder has a lot of issues. I will be posting a detailed article in the course of 2018, but as of now I can not recommend this maker. - Konstantin Stefanov (BG) - you can see his grinder on bladecomunity.de here
Belts for belt grinders:
There is a simple rule. For grinding steel get the best belts you can get. At this moment I only need 1x30" belts. Selection for large belts (2x42" and 2x72") is larger, but there are still rather few places to buy belts. Now - what does 'best belts' mean. Well - that is a matter of taste, but the following belts have got very positive feedback. I may write a short article on belts later, but as of now my own experience is too limited.
- Norton Blaze R980P (orange ceramic belts)
- 3M Cubitron II (ceramic belts)
- Sait 7S (ceramic belts)
- 3M Triazact "gator" and "non-gator" belts. Gator is a nickname that is used a lot. These belts use different grit convetions (grain size in micrometers), a conversion table is here
So - where can you buy some of these (or other belts):
- schleifmitte-ab-werk (DE) They offer practically unlimited size selection.
- Der Kleine Messerladen (DE)
- BND Abrasives (UK)
- John from BritishBlades.com (user alias 'johnt1102' - send him a PM via the forum, I am not going to share his email here for SPAM reasons). He has a lot of experience with abrasives. I did order belts from him (Sait 7S and 3M Trizact) and will probably order again in the future.
- Carls.nu (DK) - I am buying most of my belts from Carls (thanks to Robin Dalman who pointed me in their direction). Among others they are offering Bora 7 ceramic belts which in my opinion offer a very good price to performance ratio. As of Novemeber 2018 they are starting to offer 3M Trizact 337DC ('gator') belts.
- Tru-Grit (US) ok, these guys are not in EU, but were one of the few places that had Norton Blaze and 3M Gator belts for 1x30" grinders + the shipping cost was reasonable
- Truhlarime (CZ) have both 3M Cubitron, Trizact as well as Norton Blaze and Scotchbrite belts.
I have to admit that I have also ordered belts from US as the 3M Cubitron II belts are not available in 1x30" size and I did not manage to find Norton Blaze R980P belts in EU.
Heat treatment in Germany
Since I am located in Germany I needed to find places that offer heat treatment services. I have found the following:
- Achim Wirtz (HT for carbon steels, also sells steels and is expert on the topic).
- Juergen Schanz (HT for stainless steels, also sells knifemaking supplies)
- Schmiedeglut
Heat treating kilns in Europe
I have finally found some HT kilns in Europe:
- Titangrinder and looks like it would be suitable for knifemaking. They have 2 sizes.
- Art4Fun (SW)imports Evenheat kilns from US, but I was told that the price is very high (about 2000€+ for a relevant size)
- Uterm (SW) builts HT kilns to order
- Prederi Vittorio (IT), I was told by another knifemaker who did ask for some more details, their kiln in relevant size would cost around 1600€
Heat treating accessories:
- Anti-Scale-Coating - Caleb White uses exactly this one to avoid decarb and building up of scale during HT. It turns out it can be bought here in DE too :)
Thank you for recommending us! BND Abrasives can make any size belt in almost any abrasive material including 3M Trizact 237AA, 3M Trizact Gator 337DC, 3M Cubitron II 784F, Awuko Belts, Norton Belts and many more!
ReplyDeleteHello Matus Kalisky!
ReplyDeleteI'm a Brazilian that is moving to Latvia at the end of the year. It will be quite hard for me to move all my equipment together so your advice came to be very handy. I specially liked your advice on the work from http://www.titangrinder.com/en
their grinders look quite balanced and no vibrations whatsoever. I was first considering to buy a KMG grinder, but together with the VAT it would cost around 3200 dollars to import it to Europe.
anyways, thank you for your advice, maybe checkout my instagram @gabrielkierulff
best regards
Hi Gabriel,
ReplyDeleteI apologize for missing your post (I missed several over the past 2 months). I am glad you find this list of supplies helpful. I am using now grinder from Claryx and it is a great machine. The Titangrinder would be great for wet (with a water spray) grinding as it has the housing and so the water would not spray all around your shop.
Best, Matus
Thanks for the info. That's great
ReplyDeleteJust a note that Batko's grinders are *exactly* the same as Croatian maker Celi's. They must have a deal going. I plan to get a Celi one soon. Will update on how it is one day
ReplyDeleteThat is very interesting - and makes a bit easier to understand the price. Do you know who actually makes the grinder?
DeleteI'm talking to Celi and they say they need 15-35 days making time, so I assume they do it in-house. They are booked up this month and say to order early next month to get an order in. Wondered if the Bakto orders are filling their book up, but that's a guess. They are cheap so maybe get lots of orders
DeleteThank you. I was in contact with Jac from Bratko grinders. He confirmed that they have a close cooperetaion. Most (all?) of the hardware is made by Celi, but they work on the design and improvements together.
DeleteAh right. Yes, it looks like they make up the frames and attach 3rd party wheels. Simple pvc castor wheel for the contact wheel you can find all over the web. Not sure how easy it is to find the small steel ones with bearings. Been pondering a self build and looking around (but it's probably not worth the effort). Cheers
DeleteMatus Kalisky, how is your feedback about the Claryx 2x72 belt grinder pro? Thank you for your best work in this page...
ReplyDeleteThe grinder is rally good and reliable machine. I will be eventually making a blog post about it (including some videos), but that may take a while because of the time limitations. I would not hesitate to buy it again. What guys from Claryx a great at is customer support (I killed the first VFD with dust and got a free replacement including a new housing).
DeleteUpdate: I got my Meli94 grinder from the Croatian maker. Thus far it seems good - solid and well made. A good deal for like 850 euros with big and small wheels, platen and resting plates. I got 2000 x 50 belts from a local supplier and found it scarily fast at grinding bevels for me (accidentally turned my first knife into a toothpick trying to get even bevels!). I need to learn how to use it well. To use the wheels you must get 1600mm belts as the arm can't reach far enough with 2000mm belts (but they work with the platen). The machine design means it is quite low on a normal table. Also the platen is not so long to do the full side of a knife vertically. Will maybe update as I find out more and get more experience
ReplyDeleteThank you for your feedback.
DeleteHi Matus. Do you or anyone know where to buy a smallish 'affordable' hydraulic forge press in the EU?
ReplyDeleteHi Dan, sorry - again I did not get a notification from blogger (sometimes it does not work it seems) and only discovered your comment now. I am not aware at the moment of hydraulic press - my understanding is that most that one can find will be very slow. I think you would have a better chance finding someone who would build you one, or contact some of the knife supplying shops above. I am sorry I could not be of more help.
DeleteGreat post im glad i found it, Been interested for a while to start making knives once i get the space for a small workshop and seeing as i move to a house in 3 months i would say the time is hopefully here.
ReplyDeleteBeen researching knifemaking for more then 4 years and evben had the time to try some forging. Now i do know that i dont really need to buy a beltgrinder and since this will probobly not be more then a hobby "but one never knows ofc" thats a big investement and i could probobly manage fine with less high end tools. But there is a reason why they are used and if i get really hooked then i might have to invest in one sooner or later anyway.
Tons of god info here and as others i hope for any more info and perhaps reviews of the Claryx. there are cheaper once in the list but i havent found many reviews on any atleast that i can read:) and the claryx really looks good and i got a good feeling about it.
Great post and i hope there will be time for more info on the grinder and what you think about it and everything.
I am glad you find this blog helpful. Looking back I can only say that going from file to 1x30" was an important step as I could to grinding after HT - what is essential with kitchen knives (because they are so thin). The Step from 1x30" to 2x72" did not only speed me up, but allowed for much more control and flexibility.
DeleteYou are right - it would be about the time to make a writeup about the Claryx. I will start to work on such article. But it will take me a few weeks I guess (read - months :p )
Hi Matus,
ReplyDeleteI came across your site and thought I'd let you know that there is another option out there for 84 Engineering Belt Grinders, Evenheat Heat Treatment Kilns and 3M/Norton etc Abrasive Belts plus other tools and equipment. Based in the UK and has been shipping Europe wide for years. All items are kept in stock and ready to ship. Please see www.multitoolproducts.com
Hi,
ReplyDeleteLdgrinder seems to be just and only scam.
The owner is Dessi Pasquale. And he doesn't send the ordered product.
In the end of 2019 my father ordered a from him and payed for it, but he never received anything. The only answer on ANY request is "we will be able to deliver soon". But since more than 2 years northing arrived.
I would like to request you to remove ldgrinder from your list.
Thank you for the information. I am sorry to hear about your trouble.
Deletehttps://www.beltgrinders.pl/ - will follow up with comments once I order :)
ReplyDelete